My interview with Paul Sating
What is your favorite thing about being a podcaster according to you?
I just enjoy creating. I enjoy telling stories, and I love finding a community of people to share them with. One of the attributes of podcasting that makes it attractive to a creator is immediacy of the medium. I can create a story today, voice it and release it tonight, and get feedback on it tomorrow.
You don't get that sort of response in any other form of publishing. It's thrilling. In addition, it gives me a chance to experiment. I can delve into more traditional storytelling, like I do with Subject: Found, or I can experiment with content and structure, like I do in Diary of a Madman or Atheist Apocalypse.
You'll also see new shows later this year where I really get to be free in my storytelling. I get to develop as a writer; something else that podcasting has given me the chance to do.
How did you stumble into the world of podcasting?
I've done talk-show podcasting for years before I got into audio drama and I hated it. I was miserable. It wasn't fun and it wasn't what I wanted to do, topically or with other aspects of it.
I've been in podcasting since 2009, so I honestly can't even remember who I heard about it first from but I wanted more news about my European soccer team (Liverpool--come on, you might Reds!). Now, I'll be frustrated until I figure that out.
What was the first podcast you listened to?
A now-defunct soccer (European football) podcast.
What is your writing process for each episode?
That really depends on the show.
For Subject: Found I do everything myself; the writing and editing and then I send the entire season to trusted beta readers. They provide me with invaluable insight, especially since all the creation, from a writing perspective, is on me.
Season 2, coming out this summer, is as strong as it is because I had a lot of voices helping tweak where it needed it.
When I wrote season 1 of Diary of a Madman (season 2 is written by a new writer) I had to be in a very specific head-space before I could write an episode, because of the dark nature of the content. After all, I wanted it to be the first audio drama (and I believe it is) that told the complete story from the perspective of the "bad guy".
I'm very, very proud of that because, as any creator knows, it's scary to take a chance, especially one like that. So to write from the perspective of the "bad guy" I had to be in an emotional and mental space that facilitated that anger, frustration, and disgust you heard in the Madman.
So there would be weeks were I wouldn't write a single episode and then, in one afternoon I'd pumped out four, five, or six episodes. It was all about being "in" that character for me, but I couldn't stay there long. He's a really dark person .
For Atheist Apocalypse I have to write the entire season at one time. With the other projects I can switch back and forth between stories and only suffer a slight slowdown. But with that show I need focus. I would give the other two writers an A and B plot for each episode, we'd talk about it, change it up and then I would go into a hole for a month or two and knock out the entire season, which was exhausting.
Every silly story you ever heard on that show was predicated by something stupid that happened in the real world and, for me, that wears me out. So that 1-2 month dedication period was critical to getting into the flow, staying in the same voice, and then getting out before I started getting jaded, because nothing kills comedy more quickly than that.
Thankfully I had people like Steven Bateman (Blastville, coming soon), and Brian Bristol and Dan Cacolla (You Are Here) on the team and they'd help bring the funny into those places where I stumbled.
For Family Portrait we are still working out the process. It's a new team and that happens. I'm partnering with Raul Vega (Rose Drive) and he's doing all the hard work after I write the story, so all I have to do is write.
But this is the1st time the idea hasn't been completely mine, so we had to feel each other out and work towards a common vision. It's been very exciting.
I'm also working on a crime/thriller audio drama that should be out at the end of this year or early next and that will be much like the others; free the schedule, free the head space, and pump out an entire season over the course of a month and then go back and start reworking it.
I see you have not one but three podcasts, what was the inspiration for starting each audio drama?
I actually have 5 in 'working stages' (2 unpublished as of now) and another two in the works, for a grand total of 7. I'm sure by the time this goes to print I'll have added an 8th.
You should see my hard drive, my phone's Notes App, and the sticky notes all over my desk. I see ideas in everything; a curse, trust me.
For Atheist Apocalypse, I wanted to get into audio drama but I didn't know what I was doing. I wanted to work with other people and we could figure it all out together. And you can hear that in those first three or four episodes, we had NO idea how to write, pace, voice, produce, etc., audio drama.
But we learned and it got better, a lot better. But that show exhausts me. I don't like keeping up with politics or the blind tribalism 99.999% of the world operates under. It wears on me and, honestly, makes me unhappy.
We, people, are our own worst enemy because we're not willing to shut up and let the other person talk. If you're paying attention throughout those first three seasons of the show you'll see that theme a lot. It's very important to me to not make empty art. That bores me.
People who take that show on the surface will think it's just stupid humor and they couldn't be more wrong. Every single story we've done is based on the ugly stuff people do to each other every day. It's disgusting. So, we deal with it through comedy and we hope we get some people thinking. But, like I said, that takes a toll on me and since I do 85-90% of the writing, it became a labor. I needed something that was fun. I needed to tell stories for entertainment, where the desire to get people to think came second.
And that's where Subject: Found was born. I was watching American Horror Story (TV series) one night and it dawned on me. 'Huh, I don't know anyone in audio drama who has a structure like this. I'm going to do it!' So I did. That's how it started.
Seriously. I just wanted to create a show centered around the same title but that also had a very distinct story each season while using many of the same actors season-in and season-out, for familiarity and intimacy. But how? How did I do that and make it work?! Legend and lore!!! There's a million stories out there (I currently have plans for 45 seasons) and everything fell into place.
Bigfoot (season 1) was always going to be the first season because I've loved the notion of a giant primate roaming American since I was a kid and I figured if the show was only going to have 1 season it was going to be a Bigfoot season. I'm sure I could have had a much higher subscriber rate if I'd done just about anything else but I create the stories in my heart, whether or not they're the current "cool thing" to do.
I was done with Atheist Apocalype's season 4 and only had editing to do on Subject: Found's season 1 and wanted something else to create but I wanted something I could do myself, where I didn't have to rely on someone to act or produce and I wanted to learn those things.
So I needed a simple show to do that, to test my mettle. Viola! Diary of a Madman is born. Over that first season it evolved and if you're paying attention you can see at what point I changed my mind about not having other actors. I still did all the production but I figured out early on that I enjoyed playing on the dark side of podcasting and I wanted more people in the party.
I was very lucky to have Jon Grilz (Small Town Horror), Rebecca Thomas, and, especially, Heather Auden be okay with doing what I was asking them to do in that season. It takes a professional to walk the path I asked them to walk, especially Heather, and I'm grateful I get to work with people like that.
For Family Portrait, I wish I could take the credit for the inspiration but that idea is all Raul's. It's his baby. I just came in and created most of the family you're going to meet, and fleshed out the world they're going to live in, with some pointers from him.
What are the best things about working on each audio drama since they are in different genres?
Staying fresh!!! I refuse to be one of those creators who creates the same thing, over and over.
In my opinion all audio drama shows, I don't care how big or 'cool' they are, they all have a shelf life, and I personally think it's much shorter than some of what we see out there.
It gets stale for me, very quickly; as a writer and as a fan. None of my shows will ever stay on the shelf beyond their sell-by date. Subject: Found may be the one exception, but that is only attributable to the structure.
If I ever get to the point where I feel like I'm telling the same story over and over, just with a different monster, then I'm done. There are plenty of other things I want to be writing to not waste my time or the fan's time giving them the same thing they've had episode after episode or season after season.
In order to stay creative I have to be creative, and that means I need to stay fresh. That's a huge reason why I do that. In fact, I was 10 episodes into writing season 2 of Diary of a Madman when I approached that season's writer and asked him if he'd be willing to write his own madman story because season 2 didn't feel fresh enough for me.
I'll never give my Patrons and fans crap, not intentionally, and season 2 felt like a retread of season 1.
The neat thing? That revelation sparked and idea and now I have guest writers already working on season 3 and 4 of that show. Last week, in fact, I read the season 3 story and it is EDGY, which is what that show needs to be.
Season 4's concept is a huge departure from the first 3 seasons, so, again, it stays fresh, I stay excited and, hopefully most of all, the fans will love all of it.
How do you go about getting others involved? Particularly if they’re far away?
Networking, networking, networking. Reaching out to others, trying to see what you can do for them before asking for favors in return. The nice thing about audio drama is the more you do it, the longer you do it, the more contacts you make, the more familiar you are with the personalities and it all becomes more streamlined.
Whereas when I started out I cast a net and worked with anyone who was willing. But now I know a lot more about the type of person I am willing to work with and who I wouldn't work with if they paid me.
There are a million talented people out there who will voice act for you, for example, but I feel an allegiance to those who have suffered along with me through these dry times, where you can't find Patrons or sponsorship even if you were given their home addresses.
In case I ever unlock the key to the secrets to getting that critical support we all need I want to make sure the people who stood by me in the slim times are the ones I'm calling on when I suddenly have the money to pay them for their immense talents. So we have a lot of friendly conversations that have nothing to do with audio drama, I get to know a lot of them as the people they are; for me that's more important than the type of actor or producer they are.
In fact, season 2 of Diary of a Madman was written by a guy in England and it'll have a very talented British actor.
Season 3 of Subject: Found is going to have a German actor in it. How exciting is that? To work with people from around the country or around the world?! I love it.
It's all about cultivating relationships; if you're a good person I'll try to find a way to work with you at some point, and if you're an ass, well, I don't get the kind of Patreon support to suffer those types.
I'd advise anyone looking to get into this to and work with other people to carefully consider who they choose to work with, no matter 'how badly' they need help with something.
Make sure the person you're working with is the type you could go to the pub with or the art will suffer.
What made you want to start FateCrafters and why?
Oh boy, how controversial do you want me to be?
I relaunched FateCrafters when someone approached me about getting a network going again. I'd always seen a dedicated audio drama network as a vehicle to mutual growth, of the medium and of quality shows.
As I thought about it I realized that audio drama may be very easy to get into but it's not so easy to get noticed, unless your show leverages niche biases. Most creators I know give up way more than we probably should for this. It causes personal problems for a lot of people I've talked to because it's a huge commitment; something I don't think most people understand. But the fact is that there are certain "gatekeepers" in audio drama who hinder progress and growth of artists who deserve it.
It's probably the uglier side of audio drama and one I'm not interested in spending anymore energy on than I already have. But I don't like that about podcasting, I never have. It shouldn't matter who you are or if you can get the three or four gatekeepers to say something about you. That crap can work for talk-show podcasting or movie review shows or whatever, but not for this.
We put too much of ourselves into audio drama for too little (sometimes no) compensation when you compare the support and download numbers of this category to others. We should be a community, we should rise above cliques and giving attention to someone only if we like their demographics or their political stance. It's high-schoolish, but it's a very real reality.
I've said this publicly and I don't back down from it, I want to smash the gatekeepers. If you've got talent, if your show is good, it should be heard. It should be supported. It should be raved about on Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, what have you.
So I can either whine about something that will never change until its acted upon or I can act upon it.
That's why FateCrafters is structured like it is now. It's completely different than how it was originally set up last year and it is far-exceeding what I expected. The growth in the downloads of the member shows has, honestly, astounded me. I'm not trying to sell anyone a used car; I'm being genuine. It is working like nothing I expected. I didn't expect to break daily download numbers two months into my off-season, but I am.
And the other shows have consistently been posting record downloads. And we're adding shows all the time. We have 12 shows now, three more coming from creators who are already members, and we have two potentially huge applications coming in.
Within three months of our relaunch we've started the Audio Drama 101 series thanks to Dohai (Wh1teN0ize) and both he and Robert Chauncey (The Tunnels) have pitched ideas that will help us grow beyond traditional audio drama.
I even have an idea for the group I can't talk about yet, but only because I haven't told them.
The success is down to the people in that network. They're willing to look beyond themselves, beyond their own shows and help others. They're the type of people I get energized being around.
Could you tell us a bit about the process to turn a script into a finished audio drama. Which part do you enjoy the most?
Everyone is different, but for me it is: concept, idea generation, outlining, first draft, pause, 2nd draft, actor recruiting, auditioning, third draft, rehearsal, recording, production, editing, final production.
Nothing happens quickly because I know that would lead me toward a product I couldn't be happy about. For me I enjoy the writing the most. I hate editing, I despise outlining, but those things are necessary if you want to set the actors and producer up for success. But my fingers on the keyboard with nothing but instrumental music in the background is my happy place. I'd stay there forever if I could.
In fact, my love of audio drama has pushed me more towards writing books than audio drama. I finished my first one in March of this year (2017) and I'm already 35,000 words into my 2nd book, which Subject: Found fans are going to love.
I write at least six days a week and if I had the power I'd created an eighth day of the week so I could write on at least seven of them.
Creating a world, its people, and their stories from what usually starts as a simple idea, is a very exciting, cathartic process. But I do love the other aspects (no, I still hate editing and outlining) because it's stimulating to chat and work with other creatives.
I recorded the entire 2nd season of Maxximilian Dafoe's (Mollyville) character in Subject: Found with her, live, and we spent more time laughing and chatting and getting to know one another than we did in the scripts.
It's that sort of stuff that gets the blood pumping and picks you up in those dark times when you wonder if you should even bother continuing on with a project.
If you could recommend one FateCrafters show to someone who just recently started listening to audio dramas, which one would it be?
Oh, I can't pick between family members! That's cruel! . They're all great.
Rex Rivetter is the standard bearer for noir audio drama, in my humble opinion.
There is no other place than FateCrafters to go if you're looking to be creeped out; between Spines, The Tunnels, Lake Clarity, Sable & Darker Projects there is enough there to guarantee perpetual skin-crawling sensations.
Then there's Steven Blizin; his current show (Drift and Ramble) isn't audio drama but it does offer its own form of wild west storytelling and he also has a show coming this year that sci fi fans are going to geek out about!
And Steve Bateman, who has worked with me on Atheist Apocalypse since the end of season 1, has his own audio drama in production that is going to add to our comedy offerings. This doesn't include the two shows I, personally, will be adding to the network later this year or the new member we're going to be able to announce in June.
So, yeah, head over to www.fatecrafters.net and check out all the audio drama awesomeness we have for you!
Thank you so much for this and thank you to all of your readers for giving me some of their time.
Now, go see what can be FOUND in the awesome stories from the incredible people who put their souls on display for the world!
Paul, is there anything you'd like to add about the future of FateCrafters before we end?
Yes, actually. FateCrafters Studios is growing by leaps and bounds and we have a number of shows that will join us in August and beyond.
Right on the immediate landscape, we're going to be adding no less than three shows next month and another three after that.
The three joining us next month are Worlds of Whimsy, our first children's audio drama, by Lauren Nelson, the creator of The Box.
But not only that, we've landed one of the hottest comedy properties in Attention Hellmart Shoppers by Thoreau Smiley; and, as if that's not cool enough, we've gone international, adding the Portuguese-language Contrador de Historian by one of the nicest people in podcasting, Danilo Battistini.
And this doesn't even include the three shows joining us over the autumn!
The network is so attractive to audio drama creators that we've had to actually hit the PAUSE button on accepting new shows until we're ready to handle them.
Paul Sating is a writer and audio drama creator. You can find all of his shows and some of his short stories, including the highly-acclaimed "May's Flowers" over at www.paulsating.com.
Executive Director, Subject: Found
Executive Director, Diary Of A Madman
Executive Director, Who Killed Julie?
Creator & Host, Horrible Writing
Executive Director, Atheist Apocalypse
